tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post5629295850715197832..comments2024-02-14T14:04:43.435+01:00Comments on Martin in Broda: William Blake - AutumnMartininBrodahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13367467039848677931noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post-17788930629002036632016-01-28T20:49:24.344+01:002016-01-28T20:49:24.344+01:00@naturgesetz Thanks, I'm not sure to answer th...@naturgesetz Thanks, I'm not sure to answer this here, but anyway. She is suffering for years from arthritis and rheumatism, last fall were added a few things as well, Christmas was difficult, and since January I can only move her in a wheelchair. Next week she should “go” to the hospital for some tests etc., so it has recommended her concerned doctor; but she is reluctant to do so. MartininBrodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13367467039848677931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post-82108053261285490792016-01-28T17:11:33.096+01:002016-01-28T17:11:33.096+01:00@MartininBroda — I'm a little alarmed to read ...@MartininBroda — I'm a little alarmed to read "unter Mühen." I hope it's nothing to serious and that your mother will be well soon, if not already.naturgesetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15268507379933286863noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post-65658756009263061632016-01-27T23:57:58.910+01:002016-01-27T23:57:58.910+01:00@Prof. Aue Vielen Dank! Ich habe gerade Frau W. un...@Prof. Aue Vielen Dank! Ich habe gerade Frau W. unter Mühen zu Bett gebracht und werde jetzt versuchen, ein wenig weiter zu schreiben.MartininBrodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13367467039848677931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post-74618971585242648652016-01-27T23:54:50.540+01:002016-01-27T23:54:50.540+01:00@naturgesetz He just did :)@naturgesetz He just did :)MartininBrodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13367467039848677931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post-48464757172072117002016-01-27T22:32:43.635+01:002016-01-27T22:32:43.635+01:00Very interesting! My gratitude to Naturgesetz for...Very interesting! My gratitude to Naturgesetz for his kind words as well as kudos for his careful reading! The argument that morning asks for evening - or morn for eve - is a very cogent one indeed. I believe Naturgesetz is correct in saying that I have not properly taken care it.<br /><br />Here is the original stanza:<br /><br />"The narrow bud opens her beauties to <br />The sun, and love runs in her thrilling veins; <br />Blossoms hang round the brows of Morning, and <br />Flourish down the bright cheek of modest Eve, <br />Till clust'ring Summer breaks forth into singing, <br />And feather'd clouds strew flowers round her head.<br /><br />Since Morning is capitalized, so would be Evening or Eve, hence one cannot take the capital letter of Eve as proof that Adam's (second?) wife is mentioned here. <br /><br /> True, the personal pronoun "her" in the last line suggests Eve, the person. However, it may well be that Blake in his imagination sees Morning and Evening as allegorical figures, hence also persons (usually depicted as female). Also, the personal pronoun in old England, just as capitalization, was used a bit freer (and perhaps closer to what one finds in today's German).<br /><br />An even weaker argument would be to ask why Blake did not use a similar-sounding pair, i.e. Morning/Evening or Morn/Eve, if he wanted to stress the juxtaposition. But that might have to do with prosody and the way he wanted the meter.<br /><br />A further question to add would be whether Blake did not indeed use the double meaning of "Eve" on purpose. An evening can be "modest", but the word is more often used - and so would likely be the reaction of the reader - for the proper behaviour of a shy and well-bred young female.<br /><br />Of these pros and cons, I consider Naturgesetz's argument based on the side-by-side Morning-Evening pair the strongest, and I should have seen and taken care of it. Here is the corresponding translation into German:<br /><br />"Die enge Knospe öffnet ihre Schönheiten<br />der Sonne zu, und Liebe pulst in ihrem Blut;<br />Blüten verzier'n des Morgens Lider und<br />ziehn hinab des keuschen Abends Wangen -<br />bis einend der Gesang erschallt des Sommers<br />und Federwölkchen ihr die Stirn bekränzen.<br /><br />Now here are the relevant problems with the German: I have left the translation of "her" to "ihr", but the question is to what noun this pronoun refers to in English and German. Clearly they would fit Eve, the person. If the seasons and times of day are seen as female impersonations, "her" could fit them as well.<br /><br />In German, the female nouns occur mostly at the beginning: Knospe, Schoenheit, Sonne, Liebe, Bluete. Morgen, Abend and Sommer are males. That would suggest that "ihr" harks back to "Knospe", the bud that opens. That may seem alright. The stanza does allude several times to corporeal sensuality, particularly the first two lines. (Eve, the person, would incorporate such sensualities just by the way we are used to seeing her.) "The narrow bud opens her beauties....." needs no Freudian explanation in its clear suggestion to the reader.<br /><br />In summary, Naturgesetz has made an excellent point, and I therefore chose his arguments over mine in the above version of the poem.<br /><br />I haven't touched my translation site in several years, and there are also problems with the Dalhousie server. I had, however, planned to change these poems from a personally HTML-coded pages to pdf-format for including the poems and their translations in the Dalhousie Archives. I do not know whether I'll ever get to it, but if I do, I shall of course include a proper note with proper credit to Naturgesetz for the alternative reading.Walter A. Auehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18175429692070019168noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post-74956433542277562512016-01-27T18:30:19.501+01:002016-01-27T18:30:19.501+01:00I should have done it more, but I have the firm in...I should have done it more, but I have the firm intention to introduce some pieces again. Hopefully he will explain this to us, because – indeed.MartininBrodahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13367467039848677931noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5407783074290571587.post-67241233563488216462016-01-27T04:17:45.317+01:002016-01-27T04:17:45.317+01:00I always enjoy seeing Prof. Aue's translations...I always enjoy seeing Prof. Aue's translations. Either I know the German words he has chosen and marvel at how skillfully he has kept both the meaning and the meter, or I learn a bit more of the language. I hope you'll continue to share his excellent work. This time, however, I wonder if he might agree that "Eve" corresponds (in parallel with "Morning") to Abend rather than Eva.naturgesetzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15268507379933286863noreply@blogger.com